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 Topic # 1363 |
is izibasic 68k or ARM |
14/02/2006 @ 22:19
by Vladimir Atehortua
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From reading the izibasic docs that came with the trial, I understand that it compiles the basic source into some kind of bytecode or parse tree, that is then interpreted by an izibasic runtime... pretty much the way python or VB work on PC's.
I also know that on Palm OS 5, all programscompiled for 68k run under an emulator provided by the OS, and canoot then be as fast as newer programs build for native ARM.
Then I read that izibasic is made using PP (Pascal Parlm) which is a compiler capable of generiating both 68k and ARM native code.
since the trial only contains 1 prc (which then I have to assume is 68k code) I have to ask: ¿is Izibasic (compiler and runtime VM) native ARM binary, or 68k?
And if it is 68k only, may I ask why.
I'm not an izibasic user yet, I just happened to read NSbasic and their claims to have dramatic speed increases with palm os 5, and I'd like to know if izibasic is either native arm, or there is room to hope it will one day be |
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Warning: A non-numeric value encountered in /web5/aldweb/www/aldweb_com/www/thread.php on line 497
Answer n° 1
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15/02/2006 @ 14:47
by aldweb
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Hello Vladimir,
iziBasic is compiled in 68k code.
It is 68k only because coding in ARM or 68k is not the same thing at all.
Palm clearly recommends to code in ARM only the pieces of the software that need real speed.
Furthermore, in PalmOS5, ARM modules are closely linked to 68k modules and are so called "ARMlets". Then, there is no real "ARM native" in PalmOS5.
So, there would be a huge work to switch iziBasic to an architecture mixing 68k and "ARMlets".
And I don't believe that it is worth doing it. Let me explain why:
1. most applications do not need speed, most of the time is spent waiting for a user input on a GUI form
2. if you need speed at one stage (calculation routine), you may still call a so called "ARM PP applet" from the iziBasic main code.
And, PP is being written back from scratch to provide a "full native ARM" compiler. I am waiting for this version to eventually switch iziBasic to ARM.
Cheers,
aldweb
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Warning: A non-numeric value encountered in /web5/aldweb/www/aldweb_com/www/thread.php on line 497
Answer n° 2
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15/02/2006 @ 21:41
by Vladimir Atehortua
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I've just read Pierre Brothier's tutorial for armlets.
I have Garnet 5.4, and I've read in many places that its not true that all palm apps have to be 68k with armlets. The arguments I've read pinpoint applications on the LifeDrive, which when you use them, evidently are not part of the OS, but are not 68k pace emulated code either (multimedia video apps particularly).
PP would have then to become a "full native ARM" compiler and use a newer toolset/API for garnet, because as you said it doesnt make sense to turn izibasic into armlets.
Lets hope what you are waiting for does indeed happen.
Its not like izibasic is any slow tho, its more like a matter of confidence in the future when considering to choose it for future development. |
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Answer n° 3
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16/02/2006 @ 21:30
by Pierre
visitor
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Good evening and bonsoir Vladimir,
I am partially right with you.
90% of the Palm apps do not need ARM programmation as they are essentialy interactive : you spend more times to interpret ( or modify) the displayed data than the Palm needs to calculate and format them. Anyway 'if you can the more, you can the less'. If your compiler is able to generate ARM code you do not have to take care for optimization because you will get systematically the fastest code possible.
I think that the most important, for a 'Palm' compiler,is not to generate 68k or ARM code, but it's to carrefully follow the PalmOS specs (there were only a few crashes when Palm came from the 68X to the ARM processors). The warnings about the 68k code has been send in order to limit some 'exotic' code that may cause crashes because of the OS/processor updates (remember the Hacks)
As far as I am concerned, the easiest way to develop mixed (or not) 68k/ARM apps with PP, is to have a minimal 'main' calling an armlet with a dummy parameter. There is absolutely (...) no difference when you write/type your source when you are into the '68k' or the 'ARM' world : you call the same API routines, and the PP Pascal is ISO either in 68k and ARM modes.
For me the only difference btw a 'standart 68k PP app with armlet' or the future 'native ARM PP app' will be the ARM/ASM coded routines (because Philippe Guillot is a master when programming). 90% of the PalmOS apps does not need ARM, but the last 10 % and the Philippe's pleasure (as PP 68k/armlet seems to be very stable) are very important.
Pierre (Brothier), with his red wine glass. |
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Warning: A non-numeric value encountered in /web5/aldweb/www/aldweb_com/www/thread.php on line 497
Answer n° 4
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19/02/2006 @ 18:37
by aldweb
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Hello,
Anyway 'if you can the more, you can the less'. If your compiler is able to generate ARM code you do not have to take care for optimization because you will get systematically the fastest code possible.
I can only agree with that. But this is also how people become lazy and code badly, not optimizing anything. The constraints of Palm programming are muh less already than they used to be before, and this is why I liked this platform for my hobby coding 
Cheers,
aldweb |
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